Live Technology Language Revitalization

00:00 → 00:04

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Marik Studio's live session.

00:04 → 00:08

Big thanks for deciding to spend the next hour or so with us.

00:08 → 00:10

If you're watching us live,

00:10 → 00:14

please let me know if you can see and hear us correctly

00:14 → 00:17

because we will be recording this session and you will be

00:17 → 00:18

able to rewatch it.

00:18 → 00:22

But we need to know that everything's all right.

00:23 → 00:26

Joining me today are two very special guests.

00:26 → 00:30

My first guest is Selena Jerome from the Gwich'in Tribal

00:30 → 00:32

Council. Hi Selena, how are you?

00:32 → 00:36

Van Gwenzi from Inuvik in the Northwest Territories in

00:36 → 00:37

Canada's Western Arctic.

00:37 → 00:39

I would just like to acknowledge that I'm speaking

00:39 → 00:42

to you today from the traditional lands of the

00:42 → 00:44

Gwich'in and the Inuvialuit people.

00:45 → 00:48

Thank you very much for joining us and for accepting the

00:48 → 00:49

invitation, Selina.

00:49 → 00:53

My other guest is Kasia Kaniewska from Meric Studio.

00:53 → 00:54

Hi, Kasia. How are you?

00:54 → 00:57

Hi, hello. Thank you for having me.

00:58 → 01:02

Thank you very much. I'm really excited to have you here.

01:02 → 01:06

And I can already tell you that it will be a very fascinating discussion.

01:06 → 01:09

Thanks to my guests and thanks to the topics that we are going

01:09 → 01:13

to because we are going to focus on technology and

01:13 → 01:15

language revitalisation,

01:15 → 01:17

as well as the challenges and opportunities of language

01:17 → 01:19

revitalisation.

01:19 → 01:23

So if you have any questions or comments to my guests,

01:23 → 01:26

feel free to leave them in the chat box and we will answer

01:26 → 01:29

them after their discussion.

01:29 → 01:33

Okay, I can see that all is good with the audio and with the video.

01:33 → 01:37

So I think we can start.

01:37 → 01:38

All right.

01:38 → 01:40

So if you Google Wiccan,

01:40 → 01:44

you will find out that it is a severely endangered

01:44 → 01:46

language according to UNESCO.

01:46 → 01:49

In the 80s, there were about twelve hundred speakers.

01:49 → 01:54

Now the estimates vary around four hundred and five hundred.

01:54 → 01:57

So my first question would be to Selina.

01:57 → 02:00

Could you give us some background on the current

02:00 → 02:03

situation of Gwich'in right now from your perspective?

02:03 → 02:07

Because I know that you're dealing with language

02:07 → 02:10

revitalisation, so you definitely have some insights to share.

02:10 → 02:12

Yes, thank you.

02:12 → 02:16

I would just like to say that I started working in language

02:16 → 02:21

revitalisation in January of twenty twenty one,

02:21 → 02:23

and it's brand new to me.

02:23 → 02:27

So this whole first year was a learning curve and it

02:27 → 02:31

was very interesting to go out there and to see what was going

02:31 → 02:33

on within the language.

02:33 → 02:36

So if we start with the Statistics Canada census

02:36 → 02:40

data that was done in twenty sixteen,

02:40 → 02:44

they stated that there was less than two ninety five people in

02:44 → 02:46

Canada that spoke the Gwich'in language.

02:46 → 02:50

Now since twenty sixteen or six years ago,

02:50 → 02:54

we have had Gwich'in speaking people pass away.

02:54 → 02:57

So the number has since declined,

02:58 → 03:02

but we also have Gwich'in people who live in Alaska in

03:02 → 03:06

the United States, and we also have Gwich'in people

03:06 → 03:09

that live in the Yukon.

03:09 → 03:13

And right now we have two dialects that we speak in the

03:13 → 03:14

Gwich'in language.

03:14 → 03:17

One is the Gwich'in dialect,

03:17 → 03:19

and the other is the Tetlet dialect.

03:20 → 03:23

So I'd like to start with how this

03:23 → 03:25

all began and why we are in this situation

03:25 → 03:29

Let's go back to

03:29 → 03:33

the days of residential school era when our grandparents

03:33 → 03:37

who were three or four years old at the time were taken

03:37 → 03:40

away from their families.

03:40 → 03:42

Our grandparents, when they were that age,

03:42 → 03:46

were living in a language or in a camp setting,

03:46 → 03:48

they were on the land with their family.

03:48 → 03:50

They were immersed in the language.

03:50 → 03:53

They were taught how to survive on the land.

03:53 → 03:55

They were taught how to hunt.

03:55 → 03:58

They were taught how to make their own clothing and they

03:58 → 03:59

were nomadic people.

03:59 → 04:03

So they followed the caribou to keep going,

04:03 → 04:06

to keep surviving.

04:06 → 04:09

Now, when they were taken away from their families,

04:09 → 04:12

their loving homes, their safe homes,

04:12 → 04:14

their healthy homes,

04:14 → 04:17

and put into an institution where they were stripped of

04:17 → 04:20

their own human rights, you know, where there was physical,

04:20 → 04:24

mental, psychological, sexual abuse happening.

04:25 → 04:28

These children were fluent in the Gwich'in language before then.

04:28 → 04:32

And all of a sudden they're taken into these institutions.

04:32 → 04:36

And all of a sudden they're punished because they couldn't speak English.

04:36 → 04:37

They've never heard a word of English.

04:37 → 04:40

All they knew was the language.

04:40 → 04:43

And so can you imagine how a child of

04:43 → 04:46

four or five years old who has never heard the English language,

04:46 → 04:48

and then you are getting reprimanded because you don't

04:48 → 04:51

know how to speak the language or the English language?

04:51 → 04:53

This is why we are in our state today.

04:53 → 04:56

It's because indigenous people were made to feel ashamed of

04:56 → 04:58

their culture and their language.

04:58 → 05:01

They lost their voices while in residential school,

05:01 → 05:04

because if they spoke up, they were punished.

05:05 → 05:08

We are still dealing with the effects of residential school today.

05:09 → 05:12

And I speak to many people who know the language.

05:12 → 05:15

I speak to people who understand the language,

05:15 → 05:17

but for them to speak it,

05:17 → 05:21

it brings back or it triggers them to a time where they

05:21 → 05:22

weren't allowed to do that.

05:23 → 05:24

So

05:25 → 05:28

that's why we're in our state And

05:29 → 05:30

we do have other people, you know,

05:30 → 05:33

who came back from residential school and took their power

05:33 → 05:37

back and made an effort to learn their language.

05:39 → 05:41

And so I guess my question is today,

05:41 → 05:46

the churches inflicted this harm on the Gwich'in people.

05:46 → 05:49

So I'd like to know how the churches working with the

05:49 → 05:52

language departments today and helping revitalize the language

05:52 → 05:54

or where they're going to start.

05:55 → 05:57

That's just my opening.

05:57 → 06:00

Today we do have participants who are

06:00 → 06:04

actively learning the language with mentors,

06:04 → 06:08

and we do have online glitching classes.

06:08 → 06:09

And we have people,

06:09 → 06:12

we have instructors who are located in Alberta.

06:12 → 06:14

We have instructors who are located in the Yukon.

06:14 → 06:18

And then we have participants who are in the NWT,

06:18 → 06:20

the Yukon, and Alberta.

06:20 → 06:23

So they come together at least three times a week for an hour

06:23 → 06:25

and a half, and they learn the language.

06:25 → 06:30

They have created their own document to go by.

06:30 → 06:32

So it's like their own little curriculum that they've

06:32 → 06:35

developed and how they wanna learn the language.

06:35 → 06:38

And it's basic, it's, you know, introductions.

06:38 → 06:41

It's how are you? It's the weather.

06:41 → 06:43

It's how you're feeling today.

06:44 → 06:47

Just what's going on in your daily life. Right?

06:47 → 06:48

And

06:49 → 06:52

so the people who are in this

06:52 → 06:55

group, they practice all year round virtually.

06:55 → 06:59

And one of the things that they really like doing is

06:59 → 07:03

an on the land immersion camp, going back to the land,

07:04 → 07:06

living the traditional lifestyle,

07:06 → 07:09

working with traditional harvested meats and fish.

07:09 → 07:14

And what they do is they just speak in the language at the camp.

07:15 → 07:20

And so we believe that, you know,

07:20 → 07:22

when you're out on the land, this language,

07:22 → 07:24

the language is dormant in all of us.

07:24 → 07:26

And when we go to the land,

07:26 → 07:29

that's where it just like comes naturally.

07:29 → 07:31

And a short little story to go with that.

07:32 → 07:36

A lady who was on an immersion camp last year,

07:37 → 07:38

she grew up in the Gwich'in language.

07:38 → 07:40

Her grandparents raised her up on the land,

07:40 → 07:41

strictly on the land.

07:41 → 07:44

And her grandparents spoke only the Gwich'in language to her.

07:44 → 07:47

But when she was taken to residential school, she lost it.

07:47 → 07:49

She didn't practice it every single day because obviously

07:49 → 07:51

they weren't allowed.

07:51 → 07:55

However, when she decided to retire from her work,

07:55 → 07:57

she thought, you know what, I'm gonna get my language back.

07:57 → 07:59

And so she started taking these classes.

07:59 → 08:04

And all of a sudden, it was just coming back to her.

08:04 → 08:04

You know?

08:04 → 08:06

Like, the language was coming back to her,

08:06 → 08:08

and all of a sudden, she was telling instructors, okay.

08:08 → 08:10

This is how my grandparents said that word.

08:10 → 08:14

And she was kind of like bringing back the old style of the language.

08:14 → 08:16

So when we talk about on the land immersion,

08:16 → 08:18

that's where we need to go.

08:19 → 08:21

And I do believe that's where people

08:22 → 08:26

want to be while trying to learn the languages on the land.

08:26 → 08:30

Yeah, I imagine it's the most effective because you are close

08:30 → 08:32

to people and you're, as you said,

08:32 → 08:34

you are also close to nature.

08:34 → 08:37

And from what I know from you and Kasia told me,

08:37 → 08:40

the Gwich'in language is very close to the environment,

08:40 → 08:41

to what it's around.

08:41 → 08:45

So I imagine that it must be a bit easier to

08:45 → 08:48

bring this language back to you.

08:48 → 08:51

Oh, definitely. I speak to many people.

08:51 → 08:54

In my job as language revitalization,

08:54 → 08:58

or manager language revitalization, I

08:58 → 09:01

find a lot of people call me and they come forth with their

09:01 → 09:05

concerns, but I also question them about the language

09:05 → 09:09

and have you tried learning it or do you have somebody that

09:09 → 09:11

you that could mentor you?

09:11 → 09:14

And, you know, like, what would be the easiest way?

09:14 → 09:17

And again, the majority of them all state, like,

09:17 → 09:19

I find that I learn the language better when I'm on the land.

09:19 → 09:23

It doesn't matter if I'm in a camp setting up the river or if

09:23 → 09:27

I'm out harvesting berries on the land, just being there.

09:27 → 09:32

I feel like I know more of the Gwich'in language from that perspective.

09:32 → 09:34

Yeah, I see.

09:34 → 09:36

And now that you mentioned Land,

09:36 → 09:41

I'm actually wondering about this tech part of

09:41 → 09:44

language revitalisation, because being close to

09:44 → 09:47

speakers, to the language is one thing.

09:47 → 09:51

But then technology can also open up numerous possibilities

09:51 → 09:55

of exercising language, of trying

09:55 → 09:58

to reignite it anew.

09:58 → 10:02

But there's also this view that technology can be kind of a mixed blessing.

10:02 → 10:04

So on the one hand, there are these opportunities.

10:04 → 10:08

But on the other hand, if you think of the online word,

10:08 → 10:10

it's English that's lingua franca, right?

10:10 → 10:14

And it may be viewed as something that discourages the use

10:14 → 10:16

of your heritage language.

10:16 → 10:17

And before Selina,

10:17 → 10:19

I go back to you and ask you about how it's like with

10:19 → 10:24

Gwich'in, I was wondering about Kasia's point of view

10:24 → 10:27

on that because I know that Kasia also has some background

10:27 → 10:31

in linguistics apart from being a UX designer.

10:31 → 10:32

Yes. Yes, actually, I do.

10:32 → 10:36

I've studied Swedish at university.

10:36 → 10:39

So actually, this project was very

10:39 → 10:41

interesting to me,

10:42 → 10:46

taking into account my background and

10:47 → 10:50

answering your question, Alexandra,

10:50 → 10:55

it can definitely be a mixed blessing because on one hand,

10:56 → 10:59

it's easier for you to communicate in English.

10:59 → 10:59

Right.

10:59 → 11:04

So let's take an example of Sweden that I'm a bit more

11:04 → 11:08

familiar with, where people I know people who have lived

11:08 → 11:12

there for many, many years and still they do not speak the

11:12 → 11:16

language just because everyone else is very fluent in

11:16 → 11:20

English. So there is no need actually to speak the language.

11:20 → 11:24

And we have an example of a glitching from what we've

11:24 → 11:27

learned during the development of the

11:28 → 11:29

of app.

11:30 → 11:33

There is actually no going around it.

11:33 → 11:37

You cannot learn about Quichin without actually speaking

11:37 → 11:41

it as the language actually is built around

11:41 → 11:45

a lot of metaphors, a lot of descriptions of the nature of

11:45 → 11:47

the world around you.

11:47 → 11:52

So so from my point of view,

11:52 → 11:54

as a language that was initially

11:55 → 11:57

very much a spoken language.

11:58 → 12:02

It's very unique how it depicts nature,

12:02 → 12:05

how it depicts, for example, the seasons,

12:05 → 12:07

the names of the months,

12:07 → 12:11

like the February sun's getting higher.

12:11 → 12:14

So that's the direct translation of the March

12:14 → 12:19

Eagles month or even the July when people gather up together.

12:19 → 12:22

So these are examples of

12:23 → 12:27

pretty much direct translations of the Gwich'in into

12:27 → 12:30

English, showing that, you know.

12:31 → 12:35

How how actually the language shaped the way people

12:35 → 12:40

think about nature and the things that surround them.

12:40 → 12:42

So certainly.

12:43 → 12:47

It's it's impossible actually to.

12:49 → 12:52

To just use English in this case

12:52 → 12:54

and then the whole complexity

12:54 → 12:57

of the cultural background and the story.

12:57 → 13:00

Of course, I would say that, for example,

13:00 → 13:04

groups on Facebook would help you to find people

13:04 → 13:08

who are also interesting, interested in in

13:08 → 13:12

language such as which in and there are some groups,

13:12 → 13:18

as we've done some research on when we were starting the project.

13:18 → 13:19

But on the other hand,

13:19 → 13:22

there is this

13:22 → 13:26

risk, I would say, that you would switch to English instead

13:26 → 13:27

of practising the language.

13:27 → 13:32

So as you said, it's a mixed blessing for sure.

13:32 → 13:35

Yeah, as we like to say it, it depends, right?

13:38 → 13:42

Actually, preparing for our conversation,

13:42 → 13:43

I've read about, you know,

13:43 → 13:46

different ways in which technology can support language revitalisation.

13:46 → 13:48

I've read about, for example,

13:48 → 13:53

Motorola introducing a Cherokee language interface And

13:53 → 13:55

Yukasha said, there are also Facebook groups.

13:55 → 13:59

But I'm wondering about your experience, Salina.

13:59 → 14:03

How do you use technology at your community for

14:03 → 14:05

reigniting interest in Gwich'in?

14:05 → 14:10

Does it help or maybe is it this mixed blessing?

14:10 → 14:14

You know, when I think of technology and working with the language,

14:15 → 14:19

you have to remember that the language department is to

14:19 → 14:22

service everyone in the Gwich'in settlement area,

14:22 → 14:25

but we also have beneficiaries all over the world.

14:25 → 14:28

And one of the one of the things that I wanted to do when

14:28 → 14:33

I started my position was to promote the language.

14:33 → 14:38

You know, get it out there that it's okay to start learning the language again.

14:38 → 14:41

And if you needed any type of resources, then by all means,

14:41 → 14:45

you contact me or contact somebody who knows a

14:45 → 14:47

language and see how we can work together.

14:47 → 14:51

And so I noticed that when I started using promotions on

14:51 → 14:55

our Facebook social media platform,

14:55 → 14:58

I started getting questions, and

14:58 → 15:01

I started getting emails from people saying, you know,

15:01 → 15:03

I really wanna learn learn the language.

15:03 → 15:04

Like, how can I do that?

15:04 → 15:08

And so then I would direct them into our online learning,

15:08 → 15:09

Gwich'in learning classes,

15:09 → 15:12

and I would just introduce the person to the instructors,

15:12 → 15:14

and then they would, you know, contact them and say, okay.

15:14 → 15:17

What's your level of knowledge in the Gwich'in language?

15:17 → 15:20

So then we know where to start teaching the Gwich'in language.

15:20 → 15:24

So for me, that was, you know, reaching out to people,

15:24 → 15:26

not just within the Gwich'in settlement area,

15:26 → 15:29

but I was reaching people in the south as well.

15:31 → 15:33

When we talk about learning the

15:33 → 15:36

language, I talk to my mom and my aunts,

15:36 → 15:39

and I talk to elders from the communities a lot,

15:39 → 15:41

and they say, know, if you're gonna learn the language,

15:41 → 15:45

you need to be immersed in the language every single day.

15:45 → 15:46

You need to hear those words.

15:46 → 15:50

You need to know how they are pronounced. And thank goodness.

15:50 → 15:51

You know?

15:51 → 15:55

I have a computer that, you know, has a CD player on it.

15:55 → 15:59

And I have my late auntie Bertha Francis CD in there.

15:59 → 16:02

So, you know, sometimes first thing in the morning,

16:02 → 16:03

that's what I'm listening to.

16:03 → 16:06

And I'm listening to how she pronounces words because,

16:06 → 16:11

you know, as an example, I went up to my hometown of Tetlege,

16:11 → 16:13

Fort McPherson over the weekend,

16:13 → 16:16

and I went to go see my auntie Mary, my mom's eldest sister,

16:16 → 16:18

and she's about eighty four.

16:18 → 16:21

And I told my mom, you know, I said,

16:21 → 16:24

I have to acknowledge my auntie and talk to her in

16:24 → 16:27

Gwich'in. I said, so I can't use Mary, auntie Mary.

16:27 → 16:28

I said, what do I call her?

16:28 → 16:31

And she said, you call her Sheikai. And I said, okay.

16:31 → 16:34

And so I was all excited. I was all happy.

16:34 → 16:37

I went into my auntie Mary's house and I told her,

16:38 → 16:41

And she looked at me and she said,

16:42 → 16:44

And she said, now you try.

16:44 → 16:47

And I said, And she's like, yes.

16:47 → 16:48

That's how you say it.

16:48 → 16:53

Otherwise, that meaning has a or that word has a totally different meaning.

16:53 → 16:55

So you have to be very careful.

16:55 → 16:59

So having audio really helps because it's repetitive and you

16:59 → 17:01

could hear it anytime you want.

17:01 → 17:04

And one of the suggestions I got was, you know,

17:04 → 17:06

playing it at home while, you know,

17:06 → 17:08

you're cleaning or you're cooking supper or while the

17:08 → 17:11

girls are doing homework or, you know, playing with Lego.

17:11 → 17:14

You know, just have it on in the background because it's gonna

17:14 → 17:16

be embedded in your memory.

17:16 → 17:17

You know?

17:17 → 17:22

So that's that's kind of my thought on, you know, technology.

17:22 → 17:24

But one of the other you know,

17:24 → 17:28

one of my future goals for this department is to have all

17:28 → 17:31

of our resources, whether it's printed,

17:31 → 17:33

is to get them in audio, you know,

17:33 → 17:36

for that very purpose so people can hear it and people could

17:36 → 17:39

start practicing the sounds.

17:39 → 17:41

So and as Katrina said, you know,

17:41 → 17:44

Gwich'in is a very complex language.

17:44 → 17:47

And, you know, one word and I'll give you an example

17:47 → 17:50

is, you know, and it means bear.

17:50 → 17:53

But then you have, which means wolf.

17:53 → 17:54

So it's not Right?

17:54 → 17:55

Right?

17:55 → 17:57

So you have to really distinguish the words and

17:57 → 17:58

really know how to practice it.

17:58 → 18:01

And even as I practice with my mom, you know,

18:01 → 18:03

driving on the highway, many times she's like, nope.

18:03 → 18:04

That's not the way.

18:04 → 18:07

This is how and I have to re keep redoing it.

18:07 → 18:09

And, you know, trying to remember that every single day,

18:09 → 18:13

you know, that's where you have to take the time out and really

18:14 → 18:16

devote yourself to the language.

18:16 → 18:18

Yeah. So it's like training a muscle, basically.

18:18 → 18:22

If you don't do it regularly, it won't really pay off.

18:22 → 18:23

Exactly.

18:23 → 18:27

And, you know, we have six we have six editions of it,

18:27 → 18:29

the dictionary.

18:29 → 18:32

So we have all these different resources that eventually we we

18:32 → 18:34

wanna put online.

18:34 → 18:36

But we also wanna do, you know,

18:36 → 18:39

the audio for every one of those words.

18:39 → 18:39

You know?

18:39 → 18:43

So this is why the the app is so important because with this

18:43 → 18:45

app, you could open it anytime you want.

18:45 → 18:47

Like, you know, if you take a two minute break,

18:47 → 18:50

open it and listen to the words because it has audio from our

18:50 → 18:53

elders from Sige Chic and Teluget.

18:53 → 18:54

So yeah.

18:54 → 18:55

Yeah.

18:55 → 19:00

Because just to note, recently we've released application for

19:00 → 19:01

learning Gwich'in.

19:01 → 19:05

We worked together with the Gwich'in Tribal Council and you

19:05 → 19:10

can already download it and try learning Gwich'in on your own.

19:11 → 19:13

So my question will be,

19:13 → 19:17

how did you come up with the idea for building a mobile

19:17 → 19:19

application for learning Gwaijin?

19:19 → 19:23

I suppose that having these audio files was one motivation,

19:23 → 19:26

but what other reasons did you have for that?

19:27 → 19:30

So when I spoke to so like I said,

19:30 → 19:33

I started this job in January of twenty twenty one.

19:33 → 19:37

And at that time, Andrew Cieinski was a language

19:37 → 19:40

revitalization specialist here in the department.

19:40 → 19:44

And he and I spoke about this app because he wanted

19:44 → 19:49

to he wanted to create an app specifically

19:49 → 19:52

for learning the language, but he didn't wanna see just

19:52 → 19:54

any generic app.

19:54 → 19:57

He wanted to see something where, you know,

19:57 → 20:00

you were talking in full sentences,

20:00 → 20:03

meaningful everyday conversations.

20:03 → 20:07

And so he did a lot of research on the different type of

20:07 → 20:09

language apps that were out there,

20:09 → 20:12

and he couldn't really find one that he that, you know,

20:12 → 20:14

that was suitable, I guess.

20:14 → 20:18

And and so when he found Merrick

20:18 → 20:21

Studio, he was like he was blown away, and he thought, wow.

20:21 → 20:23

I I think we could work with them,

20:23 → 20:26

and I think they could develop what we have as a vision.

20:26 → 20:30

And so he he called them up and they had a meeting,

20:30 → 20:33

and basically, we were talking about, you know,

20:33 → 20:37

what our vision was for this app and what we wanted to see.

20:37 → 20:40

And they were really excited to, you know,

20:40 → 20:42

start this project because it was something I don't think

20:42 → 20:45

they've really done before.

20:45 → 20:49

And so and so it was really exciting.

20:49 → 20:51

And I from my point of view,

20:51 → 20:54

I've never developed an app or assisted in

20:54 → 20:56

developing an app before.

20:56 → 20:58

So all of the information was quite brand new,

20:58 → 21:00

and it was exciting to see from, you know,

21:00 → 21:04

where we were when we started, the middle part, and then,

21:04 → 21:07

you know, the the the end result.

21:07 → 21:11

And just listening to Andrew because I was chatting with him

21:11 → 21:11

about it, you know,

21:11 → 21:15

and he was talking to me and I one of the things I said was

21:15 → 21:17

like, how did the name come up?

21:17 → 21:20

That means camping.

21:20 → 21:24

And he said, well, you know, he said, you know, in this app, there's modules.

21:24 → 21:27

There's there's modules, and it's

21:27 → 21:31

broken down into lessons, and there's exercises.

21:31 → 21:33

And so he says there's two modules that are broken down

21:33 → 21:34

into seven lessons.

21:34 → 21:36

And with those lessons,

21:36 → 21:40

there's a Tetlet dialect that has thirty six exercises.

21:40 → 21:43

So you have to go from one exercise to the next exercise,

21:43 → 21:47

and there's little tests that you have to do in order to move

21:47 → 21:48

to the next exercise.

21:48 → 21:51

And so he said it's like going from one camp to another camp

21:51 → 21:54

to another camp before you reach your final destination,

21:54 → 21:56

which is kind of like what the Gwich'in people would have

21:56 → 21:58

done, you know, years, like,

21:58 → 22:01

hundreds of years ago when they lived on the land.

22:01 → 22:03

So I was like, that's really cool.

22:03 → 22:07

And so just thinking about it, you know,

22:07 → 22:11

that's kind of where we came from and yeah.

22:12 → 22:17

A huge thank you to Merrick Studio for helping us,

22:17 → 22:20

and a huge thank you for Andrew who, you know,

22:20 → 22:23

took the initiative to start this project and

22:24 → 22:27

continue on with it to where it's at right now.

22:27 → 22:31

I could see Kasia nodding her head that it was

22:31 → 22:34

an indeed unique project.

22:34 → 22:36

Katya, could you elaborate on that?

22:36 → 22:38

Yes, certainly.

22:38 → 22:40

So from our perspective, was, in fact,

22:40 → 22:43

very special project.

22:44 → 22:47

On one hand, we followed some standard procedures

22:47 → 22:50

like we started with a workshop,

22:50 → 22:54

a product design workshop where we did a lot of brainstorming

22:54 → 22:58

together and a lot of research regarding

22:58 → 23:00

language learning apps.

23:01 → 23:05

On the other hand, we also had some unique twists.

23:05 → 23:06

For example,

23:07 → 23:11

the research we've done wasn't just around the

23:11 → 23:15

language learning apps that we would usually do.

23:15 → 23:15

Right.

23:16 → 23:19

Just to check what what what is the

23:19 → 23:23

competition, what's already been invented,

23:23 → 23:24

developed, etc.

23:24 → 23:29

So in this case, we knew we had to connect with the

23:29 → 23:32

people because the target audience was

23:32 → 23:35

very specific in this case.

23:35 → 23:40

So we understood the importance of user testing right away.

23:40 → 23:45

And and that was one of the parts where we we

23:45 → 23:48

hoped we would get some answers as to, you know,

23:48 → 23:52

where lies the difficulty in the language learning

23:52 → 23:56

process, because it's not a trivial language, as I said.

23:57 → 24:01

An example of that is, for example, during the workshops,

24:01 → 24:05

we were extremely naive and one of the goals we had was

24:05 → 24:10

to learn some Gwich'in during the three day workshop and we failed

24:11 → 24:16

because as Selina has nicely explained,

24:16 → 24:21

it's from the well, phonetically speaking,

24:21 → 24:23

well, it's not a trivial language.

24:23 → 24:24

Right.

24:24 → 24:27

So depending how you put a stress

24:27 → 24:31

on a word or how you pronounce a specific

24:31 → 24:34

sound, it can mean a lot of things.

24:34 → 24:38

So for us, it was it was a failure,

24:38 → 24:42

but it actually made us realize how difficult

24:42 → 24:44

is this task.

24:44 → 24:48

And we understood during this process

24:48 → 24:51

what will be the challenge in in the language learning,

24:51 → 24:55

which was a great a great starting point for us.

24:55 → 24:57

So we understood

24:58 → 25:02

that, for example, the part with the speaking

25:02 → 25:05

and everyday conversation is really crucial in this app.

25:05 → 25:07

So we really focused on it.

25:07 → 25:11

We didn't cover that much from a grammatical standpoint.

25:11 → 25:11

Right.

25:11 → 25:15

We understood that everyday conversation with the

25:15 → 25:21

elders is is really an important

25:21 → 25:24

part of this of this process.

25:25 → 25:28

What I would say was also unique

25:28 → 25:32

was the ownership that the Gwich'in Tribal Council gave us.

25:32 → 25:36

And thank you, Selena, for all the trust

25:36 → 25:38

from your side.

25:38 → 25:43

So the cooperation on our side was

25:43 → 25:47

more like sometimes it felt a little bit more like a start

25:47 → 25:50

up enterprise because we we felt

25:50 → 25:54

that we we really could create

25:54 → 25:55

any app.

25:55 → 25:56

Right.

25:56 → 25:59

Given given that we we follow the rules

25:59 → 26:03

of that was stated during the workshops,

26:03 → 26:08

meaning it has it has to be an app that teaches you how to speak.

26:08 → 26:09

Right.

26:09 → 26:13

And teaches you how to pronounce words,

26:13 → 26:15

how how the everyday expressions are.

26:15 → 26:19

So it wasn't our ambition to to actually make someone

26:19 → 26:23

fluent because we understood we understood it's the app is

26:23 → 26:24

not going to make it.

26:24 → 26:29

The app is going to support you in the process and and make

26:29 → 26:32

it easier for you to repeat the vocabulary,

26:32 → 26:36

the expressions in context, as Selena

26:37 → 26:38

explained.

26:38 → 26:38

Right.

26:38 → 26:43

Now that you mentioned this ownership,

26:43 → 26:46

I'm wondering from the business perspective, Selina,

26:46 → 26:48

what was important to you

26:49 → 26:52

as basically our clients, to feel empowered?

26:52 → 26:55

Because you brought in a lot of specialist knowledge, right?

26:55 → 26:58

You brought in the idea, the cultural context,

26:58 → 27:00

the content itself.

27:00 → 27:01

But at the same time, as you said,

27:01 → 27:04

you didn't have much experience developing software.

27:04 → 27:08

So I'm wondering what from your perspective was important

27:08 → 27:12

to receive from a tech partner like Marix Studio.

27:12 → 27:15

Well, I I can't speak for Andrew.

27:15 → 27:17

But like I said,

27:17 → 27:20

what we were looking for in an app was that it can teach the

27:20 → 27:23

language in sentences, not just, you know,

27:23 → 27:25

one word here or one word there.

27:25 → 27:29

We wanted something that people could practice every day with.

27:29 → 27:31

We wanted to make sure that this app would be able to be

27:31 → 27:33

used in schools.

27:33 → 27:35

This app would be able to be used with, you know,

27:35 → 27:38

mentors and apprentices.

27:38 → 27:40

Anybody that would was able to read, you know,

27:40 → 27:44

can use this app And that it would benefit them

27:44 → 27:48

and that, you know, they would be practicing every single day.

27:49 → 27:53

For myself, because I had no experience in building an app,

27:53 → 27:57

the process from when we began was very unique and very interesting.

27:58 → 28:01

And the developers the developers made

28:01 → 28:03

made it very informational for me.

28:03 → 28:08

They made they they made sure that I understood what we were

28:08 → 28:10

doing and what steps we were in.

28:10 → 28:12

And if, you know, we had questions by you know,

28:12 → 28:14

they were there to answer them.

28:15 → 28:19

So every week, they made sure they came in contact with Andrew and I,

28:19 → 28:24

and we'd have a meeting just to see the progress of their of their work.

28:24 → 28:28

And if there was something that we wanted to tweak or something

28:28 → 28:30

we wanted to improve, obviously,

28:30 → 28:32

they were there to listen to us.

28:32 → 28:36

But thank goodness that Andrew was the one who provided all

28:36 → 28:39

the input and all of the comments and gave direction.

28:39 → 28:43

And even to the point of providing all of the content in

28:43 → 28:44

the Gwich'in language, you know,

28:44 → 28:48

and thank you to Mary Effie Snowshoe, to John Norber,

28:48 → 28:52

to Hannah Lexi, who was there guiding Andrew in making

28:52 → 28:55

sure language and words were correct.

28:56 → 29:00

So a big thank you to Merrick Studio as they were a huge help

29:00 → 29:02

in developing this.

29:03 → 29:07

And, you know, even having monthly meetings with one of

29:07 → 29:12

the managers to conduct evaluations, you know, how are we

29:13 → 29:15

feeling about the work that they were doing.

29:15 → 29:19

And, you know, I was absolutely not afraid to be honest,

29:19 → 29:23

and I felt very comfortable in voicing my concerns if I had any.

29:23 → 29:24

Okay.

29:24 → 29:27

So there was this confidence and you knew basically in what

29:27 → 29:29

direction the application was going?

29:29 → 29:32

Yes. We were a part of it all the way through.

29:33 → 29:34

Okay.

29:35 → 29:42

Katja, I wanted to go back to your background in linguistics.

29:42 → 29:46

Did that help you when you worked on KiKit?

29:47 → 29:50

Well, certainly, I would say that

29:51 → 29:54

I had the necessary curiosity to learn,

29:54 → 29:56

to approach a new language.

29:56 → 30:01

And I just wanted to understand what is

30:01 → 30:06

the difficulty in learning Kuchin and

30:06 → 30:07

how to focus on it.

30:07 → 30:11

So I understood that learning a language is a tough

30:11 → 30:15

job, actually, because there is a lot of

30:15 → 30:17

mundane tasks, I would say.

30:17 → 30:21

So every day you do the same. You repeat the same process.

30:24 → 30:28

So from my perspective, it was a very

30:28 → 30:31

interesting journey.

30:31 → 30:32

And

30:33 → 30:37

the fact that I actually like learning

30:37 → 30:41

languages, and I would say this is my hobby,

30:41 → 30:46

helped a lot because I could look at this up from,

30:46 → 30:49

I would say, a little bit higher level.

30:49 → 30:53

So not just not just as a structure of lesson

30:53 → 30:58

by lesson, but trying to understand from

30:58 → 31:01

methodology how to approach learning a language.

31:01 → 31:05

So that was certainly a help in my background.

31:05 → 31:09

And if you think about language

31:09 → 31:11

learning applications in general,

31:11 → 31:14

there are dozens of them on the market, literally.

31:15 → 31:18

For some of them the features are quite similar.

31:18 → 31:21

Sometimes there is something unique.

31:21 → 31:26

But I'm wondering how did you approach the process of picking

31:26 → 31:30

functionalities for this very application?

31:30 → 31:33

How did you choose the must haves and how did you manage to

31:33 → 31:36

make them very unique?

31:36 → 31:40

Sure. So we did a lot of research.

31:40 → 31:42

We have downloaded, I don't know,

31:42 → 31:47

seven or eight applications for learning languages.

31:47 → 31:51

And we did have a huge mural with all the

31:51 → 31:54

functionalities written down

31:55 → 31:56

with comments.

31:56 → 31:57

Would that be applicable?

31:57 → 32:01

Would maybe would that play out well or not?

32:01 → 32:05

And since we downloaded those apps,

32:05 → 32:08

we were sitting together trying to understand

32:10 → 32:13

what would bring us closer to the goal of

32:13 → 32:16

learning language such as Gwich'in.

32:16 → 32:21

So in this case, we took an example of Duolingo app

32:21 → 32:24

and maybe not all of you are familiar,

32:24 → 32:29

but they have introduced Navajo language in twenty eighteen.

32:29 → 32:34

So we took this language and Duolingo app as a benchmark.

32:34 → 32:38

So what we did was we sat together and tried to do it

32:38 → 32:40

lesson by lesson.

32:40 → 32:43

And afterwards, we we discussed,

32:43 → 32:46

for example, if the number of repetitions,

32:46 → 32:49

the number of new words was correct.

32:49 → 32:53

And we try to match it with Gwich'in and check,

32:53 → 32:57

you know, if you are a first time learner of

32:57 → 33:01

Gwich'in, would that be overwhelming for you or not?

33:01 → 33:05

So based on materials and the

33:06 → 33:11

materials from Andrew, we tried to

33:11 → 33:15

put them together in form of exercises and check if we

33:15 → 33:17

have enough content, for example,

33:17 → 33:21

for covering this part of material or not.

33:22 → 33:25

And also an important part was

33:27 → 33:29

Gwich'in, as stated many times,

33:29 → 33:32

is not an easy, trivial language.

33:32 → 33:37

So what we try to do is incorporate some fun elements to it.

33:37 → 33:37

Right.

33:37 → 33:41

So it shouldn't be a very boring, I don't know,

33:41 → 33:46

black and white or very standard generic app.

33:47 → 33:51

We really try to focus on the visual part and entertaining

33:51 → 33:57

part and also keeping the users engaged because

33:57 → 34:02

we tried to motivate them to to finish the

34:02 → 34:05

lessons as well as within during the lesson.

34:05 → 34:08

We also gave them incentives to keep going

34:08 → 34:11

because because we thought it was important.

34:11 → 34:15

And based on our experience with Navajo,

34:15 → 34:19

we understood that after a couple of repetitions where you

34:19 → 34:23

just don't know the answer and the answer is

34:23 → 34:26

false one by one, you get

34:26 → 34:27

discouraged.

34:27 → 34:32

So, yeah, that was our extensive process,

34:32 → 34:34

I would say, with trial and error.

34:35 → 34:36

Okay.

34:36 → 34:39

So you really tried to step into the shoes of your users?

34:39 → 34:42

Oh, yes, definitely. Yes.

34:42 → 34:43

And

34:45 → 34:47

staying in the topic of the application itself,

34:48 → 34:52

if you were to pinpoint the most unique

34:52 → 34:55

parts of it, what would it be?

34:55 → 34:57

The content, the design, the features?

34:57 → 35:01

Salina, what do you find the most exciting and the most

35:01 → 35:03

unique about this application?

35:04 → 35:07

You know, I think it's all of it combined.

35:07 → 35:11

The way they created the app,

35:11 → 35:14

like how it looks, the design of it.

35:14 → 35:17

When you first sign on,

35:17 → 35:19

it asks you all of these questions, whether, you know,

35:19 → 35:23

your name, your gender, your your if you're

35:23 → 35:28

intermediate, if you're beginner, if you're, you know, fluent.

35:28 → 35:30

And, you know, going through the exercises,

35:30 → 35:34

it just and the process of going there and, you know,

35:34 → 35:36

trying to get to the end, you know,

35:36 → 35:40

that would be my end goal is that I have to finish this

35:40 → 35:42

because I started it.

35:42 → 35:44

I don't want the app to come back and say, hey, Selena.

35:44 → 35:46

It's been two days.

35:46 → 35:46

You know?

35:46 → 35:51

So that's why I I think it's very unique in that sense is

35:51 → 35:54

that and going from stage to stage, right,

35:54 → 35:58

in the exercises into the modules,

35:59 → 36:03

but also knowing that we can continue to

36:03 → 36:05

add more content.

36:05 → 36:06

You know?

36:06 → 36:08

And later on down the road,

36:08 → 36:11

adding our own pictures of our own people.

36:11 → 36:14

That's exciting for me.

36:14 → 36:15

K.

36:15 → 36:19

Kasia, I know that you have some designs with you.

36:19 → 36:23

Could you actually share them and take us through the journey

36:23 → 36:25

that the user goes on to?

36:25 → 36:29

Certainly, I do not have everything.

36:30 → 36:32

We don't want to spoil the surprise.

36:32 → 36:34

Certainly not.

36:34 → 36:38

So as Selina described, maybe I would focus on this first

36:38 → 36:40

screen for for one second.

36:41 → 36:44

What we have here is is the logo

36:44 → 36:47

of the of the application.

36:47 → 36:50

And I just wanted to give you a

36:50 → 36:53

little bit of a backstory behind this.

36:53 → 36:56

So this is, of course, a speech bubble,

36:56 → 36:58

you as you all can see.

36:58 → 37:02

But this speech bubble consists of little,

37:02 → 37:04

little colorful beats.

37:04 → 37:08

And this is actually this is not

37:08 → 37:10

this is not a coincidence.

37:10 → 37:14

So we have designed this in a way that

37:15 → 37:19

those beads were an important part of a tribal

37:19 → 37:20

culture.

37:20 → 37:21

Right.

37:21 → 37:26

So every tribe has a had a specific

37:26 → 37:31

specific bead structure attached to the

37:31 → 37:35

clothes, and this represented the uniqueness of each tribe.

37:35 → 37:40

So so we tried to reuse this element

37:40 → 37:42

into into this first screen,

37:42 → 37:44

into the logo of the app,

37:44 → 37:48

saying that this is not just in the language learning app.

37:48 → 37:52

This is really immersed in the Gwich'in culture.

37:54 → 37:58

And Selina already mentioned the little

37:58 → 38:01

questionnaire that we have at the beginning.

38:01 → 38:02

So

38:04 → 38:08

what actually prompt us to create it was

38:08 → 38:12

was our curiosity as to who is actually

38:12 → 38:14

using this app.

38:14 → 38:18

And we wanted to learn a little bit more about, for example,

38:18 → 38:20

the motivation of the users.

38:20 → 38:24

So we have put some possible some

38:24 → 38:28

some possible motivations that the users might have.

38:29 → 38:32

Right now, we just gather this data.

38:32 → 38:36

But the idea is based on the feedback

38:36 → 38:40

from the users, we might actually go into different directions.

38:40 → 38:40

Right.

38:40 → 38:42

So if if everyone, for example,

38:42 → 38:46

wanted to see a little bit more of the heritage

38:46 → 38:49

part of of the app,

38:49 → 38:52

it would be a good idea to actually

38:52 → 38:57

incorporate more elements of it in the future versions.

38:57 → 39:01

And the screen on the right hand side is the

39:01 → 39:02

dialect selection.

39:02 → 39:04

So Selena already mentioned this,

39:04 → 39:08

but I wanted to point this out that we

39:08 → 39:11

understand that there are not so many speakers of Gwich'in

39:11 → 39:15

and yet the difficulty lies in two dialects

39:15 → 39:17

that are there.

39:17 → 39:21

And the app actually covers both of them.

39:21 → 39:25

So the user can select which of the dialects they would

39:25 → 39:28

like to go with.

39:28 → 39:30

And can I just add something? Sure.

39:30 → 39:33

In the in the process of developing this,

39:33 → 39:36

we did reach out to individuals within

39:36 → 39:41

the communities, and we had asked them to download the app.

39:41 → 39:43

They were given instructions on how to download the app and

39:43 → 39:46

just to test it, to try it out.

39:46 → 39:50

And they did, and we had them actually on live

39:50 → 39:53

within one of our meetings just to get their point of view.

39:53 → 39:58

And I guarantee you, every person that we ask to test this

39:58 → 40:02

app was so excited and they couldn't wait for it to come out.

40:02 → 40:06

And they were just it was just so exciting at that part,

40:06 → 40:07

you know, to know that, you know,

40:07 → 40:09

this is gonna be something great.

40:09 → 40:13

Yeah. Great to hear this, Selena. Really.

40:13 → 40:14

Yeah.

40:14 → 40:17

And that's basically the the first thing after

40:17 → 40:21

the the little onboarding questionnaire that

40:21 → 40:23

the user will see.

40:23 → 40:26

So Selena already mentioned that

40:26 → 40:28

we created this.

40:28 → 40:32

We designed this as a journey.

40:32 → 40:36

So taking a look at the cultural aspect of the

40:36 → 40:40

the Gwich'in culture and language and Gwich'in people,

40:40 → 40:44

we understood that many times they just needed to move

40:44 → 40:49

from one place to another and learning new things,

40:49 → 40:54

learning new words, learning about the nature was a part of the process.

40:54 → 40:58

So so in designing this,

40:58 → 41:02

we took that element into account and created this

41:02 → 41:03

little camping.

41:03 → 41:06

And as you progress into the app,

41:06 → 41:10

you you reach other areas of the land and

41:10 → 41:12

the landscape changes.

41:12 → 41:13

Right.

41:13 → 41:18

So so that was this little element that that we added.

41:18 → 41:22

And the camps, the color of the camps was also

41:23 → 41:27

important, I would say, in a way that we wanted to

41:27 → 41:31

indicate when do the users actually when when have they

41:31 → 41:34

reached the camp and the the little tents are

41:34 → 41:38

closed, whereas if they have already

41:38 → 41:40

covered some of the materials,

41:40 → 41:43

the tents are open to them.

41:43 → 41:45

Right. Because they they they have no missed.

41:45 → 41:49

They are no longer a mystery to them. Yeah.

41:49 → 41:51

All right.

41:51 → 41:55

And moving on to the part with the exercises.

41:55 → 42:00

So we have selected selected a couple of types of the exercises.

42:00 → 42:05

We have just put three types in this presentation.

42:05 → 42:08

So once again,

42:09 → 42:11

a lot of in a lot of cases,

42:11 → 42:15

we didn't just want the people to learn single words,

42:15 → 42:18

because if they just learned a single word,

42:18 → 42:22

they wouldn't possibly be able to reuse it

42:25 → 42:26

in the future.

42:26 → 42:26

Right.

42:26 → 42:30

And our goal once again was to to make the

42:30 → 42:33

communication skills more fluent.

42:33 → 42:38

So we have used some of the imagery to make it more entertaining.

42:38 → 42:42

But also the users would need to create a sentence

42:42 → 42:48

from from a random order of words.

42:48 → 42:53

And the third actually screen shows is is a little

42:55 → 42:58

is a little simulation, I would say,

42:58 → 43:01

of a converse everyday conversation that you would have.

43:01 → 43:04

So what we did with the exercise exercises,

43:04 → 43:08

it might be worth mentioning is we started the

43:08 → 43:12

lessons with just hearing and reading exercises.

43:12 → 43:14

So we put the audio.

43:14 → 43:18

We showed how things how words expressions are written.

43:18 → 43:22

You could play it and understand and get a little bit more familiar.

43:22 → 43:25

And once you progressed with the materials,

43:25 → 43:29

you you got more and more difficult types of

43:29 → 43:33

exercises so that you wouldn't, you know,

43:33 → 43:38

be be overwhelmed with with the content that is pretty,

43:39 → 43:44

pretty unusual, maybe pretty, pretty difficult, challenging.

43:44 → 43:44

Yeah.

43:44 → 43:46

And one

43:47 → 43:50

of the last things I wanted to say is

43:50 → 43:53

is a functionality that we have developed,

43:53 → 43:54

which is dictionary.

43:54 → 43:57

And it sounds a little bit dull. I know.

43:57 → 44:00

But I wanted to to highlight this because

44:00 → 44:04

Selena mentioned, there are six editions of the dictionary,

44:04 → 44:07

but I don't believe they are interactive.

44:07 → 44:08

Right, Selena?

44:09 → 44:12

No, not not at this point. Exactly.

44:12 → 44:16

So what we try to achieve with this functionality is

44:16 → 44:19

to give give people actually online

44:19 → 44:22

access to to the application

44:23 → 44:26

and check the words if they have doubts, if they,

44:26 → 44:29

as Selena said, have two minutes of free time or maybe

44:29 → 44:32

there is something at the back of their mind, you know,

44:32 → 44:36

that that they want to check a specific word.

44:36 → 44:37

Now they can.

44:37 → 44:41

So a regular, I would say,

44:42 → 44:45

functionality that is nothing new.

44:45 → 44:50

Actually, I think that brought a lot of value to this project specifically.

44:51 → 44:55

Okay, so the last the last part with the presentation

44:55 → 44:58

is that we tried to cover

44:59 → 45:03

even the empty states in a in a fun

45:03 → 45:05

and entertaining way.

45:05 → 45:10

And the last picture shows that the lesson is downloading.

45:10 → 45:13

So what I wanted to to

45:13 → 45:17

to say here is we have prepared the app so

45:17 → 45:21

that each module you can download it and

45:21 → 45:25

then access is access this on offline,

45:25 → 45:28

which was one of the requirements,

45:28 → 45:31

because actually maybe not all of the region,

45:32 → 45:36

the access to the Internet is is that stable.

45:36 → 45:37

Right.

45:37 → 45:42

So what we wanted to prevent is to is

45:42 → 45:46

for people to stop doing the lessons just

45:46 → 45:47

because of the Internet.

45:47 → 45:50

So something that is not that we cannot control.

45:50 → 45:54

So this is what we did.

45:54 → 45:57

Yeah, I'm sure that this preview made our audience

45:57 → 45:58

hungry for more.

45:58 → 46:03

So there will be many downloads coming in soon.

46:03 → 46:07

Before we move on, I wanted to remind you those who are

46:07 → 46:11

watching us and listening to us that you can leave questions

46:11 → 46:13

for my guests in the chat box.

46:13 → 46:15

Feel free to do this.

46:16 → 46:20

I'm wondering because Gwich'in is a very complex

46:20 → 46:25

language and it definitely wasn't easy to build

46:25 → 46:27

an application for learning it.

46:27 → 46:31

What was the most challenging part of creating KiKit,

46:31 → 46:34

Selina? From your perspective, what was the biggest challenge?

46:36 → 46:40

I think for me, it was just the building of it

46:40 → 46:45

because I had no experience in app development myself.

46:45 → 46:48

And, you know, as we walked through the process, like I said,

46:48 → 46:53

Meric Studio really contributed a lot to our to what what I didn't know.

46:53 → 46:58

But I think, you know, I think also the content,

46:59 → 47:03

inputting the content into the app, making sure that,

47:03 → 47:06

you know, if the user said, okay.

47:06 → 47:09

They're you're asking a question and, you know,

47:09 → 47:11

is it gonna be correct?

47:11 → 47:14

You know, making sure that was there. And then also the audio.

47:14 → 47:14

You know?

47:14 → 47:17

So doing the audio for the Tetlet version and doing the

47:17 → 47:21

audio for the the version,

47:21 → 47:24

that was very time consuming.

47:24 → 47:27

And, you know, thanks to Andrew who who uploaded everything.

47:27 → 47:29

You know, he said it was, you know,

47:29 → 47:32

he was working for hours on a day.

47:32 → 47:37

And there was little little instances where there was,

47:37 → 47:39

you know, problems,

47:39 → 47:41

and he had to go back to Meric Studio and say, okay.

47:41 → 47:42

Look. This is what's happening.

47:42 → 47:45

So I think it's just just that in general.

47:45 → 47:47

Mukasha, how about you?

47:47 → 47:50

What did you find the most challenging about this project?

47:50 → 47:54

I think the complexity of the language is an

47:54 → 47:58

important challenge in this case, because,

47:58 → 47:59

as you may imagine,

48:00 → 48:04

when we were designing and putting the content in the app,

48:04 → 48:08

it wasn't always easy for us to check

48:08 → 48:10

if if it's correct or not.

48:10 → 48:14

As Selina mentioned, we did not want any mistakes because

48:14 → 48:18

one of the worst things you may do is actually

48:19 → 48:23

make someone learn a word or expression in the wrong way.

48:23 → 48:29

Because in this case, relearning is really tough.

48:29 → 48:29

Right.

48:29 → 48:32

So that was, of course,

48:32 → 48:33

one of the things.

48:33 → 48:38

The other was making the application quite fun for people.

48:39 → 48:44

However, however difficult the learning path might be.

48:45 → 48:46

Another challenge, I would say,

48:46 → 48:51

was accessing the target group because

48:51 → 48:55

from the designers perspective, people during, for example,

48:55 → 48:58

conferences, they always tell you, oh, you know,

48:58 → 49:02

if you look close enough or if you are patient enough,

49:02 → 49:06

there are always people who you can test this application or

49:06 → 49:07

your project with.

49:07 → 49:11

Right. There are always there is always a target group.

49:11 → 49:15

And in this case, was extremely limited and it was

49:15 → 49:17

not as easy as we imagined.

49:17 → 49:18

Right.

49:18 → 49:22

So we once again were a little bit naive in thinking that we

49:22 → 49:26

might test this application with dozens of people.

49:26 → 49:27

We couldn't. Right?

49:27 → 49:31

So And I and I have to add to that too is that, you know,

49:31 → 49:34

with the time difference between Exactly.

49:34 → 49:37

Canada and Sweden or Poland. Poland.

49:37 → 49:38

Poland. Sorry.

49:38 → 49:42

There was, you know, a difficulty because there was

49:42 → 49:44

times where I'd have to get up, you know,

49:44 → 49:46

and come to the office before eight AM.

49:46 → 49:47

You know?

49:47 → 49:50

And so I had to get my girls up,

49:50 → 49:52

you know, my daughter and my niece up.

49:52 → 49:54

And thank goodness for them that, you know,

49:54 → 49:56

they they were like, okay.

49:56 → 49:56

We're going to the office.

49:56 → 49:58

You're gonna start work. You know?

49:58 → 49:59

But it was for, like,

49:59 → 50:02

the the the average person too that was difficult to connect

50:02 → 50:05

with them too because, you know, you know,

50:05 → 50:06

we didn't know whether they had the Internet,

50:06 → 50:10

so we had to make sure all of that, you know, fit in.

50:10 → 50:11

Exactly.

50:11 → 50:15

And and I and one of the things I have to say is that when this

50:15 → 50:19

app does go live, I'm looking for feedback.

50:19 → 50:21

I know I'm gonna get feedback,

50:21 → 50:25

and I'm gonna get and I I don't mind because it's gonna be

50:25 → 50:26

perfecting the app.

50:26 → 50:29

Right? So I'm excited for that part as well.

50:31 → 50:32

Great.

50:32 → 50:35

Okay, so we discussed the challenges.

50:35 → 50:38

So the other thing that I have to ask you about

50:39 → 50:44

is about the things that were most rewarding for you.

50:44 → 50:45

What was it?

50:47 → 50:51

So for me, I would say a lot of a lot of things.

50:51 → 50:55

So one thing was that it was really a

50:55 → 51:01

thing that was working on the project was

51:01 → 51:04

was one of those moments where, you know,

51:04 → 51:05

you're making a difference.

51:05 → 51:05

Right.

51:05 → 51:10

So you're not making any commercial application.

51:10 → 51:13

And of course, we haven't mentioned this,

51:13 → 51:15

but this application is free.

51:15 → 51:17

Right. So anyone can download it.

51:17 → 51:20

There is no premium paid features.

51:20 → 51:22

This is open to everyone.

51:22 → 51:23

So

51:25 → 51:28

so working on such a project

51:28 → 51:32

was was a great experience to me.

51:32 → 51:37

Also, having all of the ownership that that the

51:37 → 51:41

Gwich'in Tribal Council gave us was a really

51:41 → 51:43

great experience.

51:43 → 51:45

And on top of that,

51:45 → 51:47

maybe from from a design perspective,

51:47 → 51:49

I would say

51:50 → 51:51

that,

51:51 → 51:55

well, it's great if every project gives

51:55 → 51:57

teaches you something about the word.

51:57 → 51:58

Right.

51:58 → 52:01

So I was not familiar with, for example,

52:01 → 52:06

the the the whole.

52:07 → 52:12

Tough era in the Canadian

52:12 → 52:16

history, right, with the residential schools.

52:16 → 52:19

So that really gave me a perspective.

52:19 → 52:23

It it taught me a lot about about the culture of

52:23 → 52:25

Canada, about.

52:28 → 52:31

About the aspects I was never aware of. Right.

52:31 → 52:36

So so that was extremely rewarding personally,

52:36 → 52:38

I would say.

52:39 → 52:41

And, Selina, how about you?

52:41 → 52:46

Well, I think just by going through

52:46 → 52:49

this app and seeing the outcome.

52:50 → 52:52

For my personal self, you know, at home,

52:52 → 52:55

I really put my foot down with my daughter and my niece.

52:55 → 52:58

So, you know, the first thing in the morning you wake up,

52:58 → 52:59

the first thing I tell them is.

53:00 → 53:04

You know, I'm trying to get them used to using the language every single

53:04 → 53:09

day and, you know, explaining the importance of where we

53:09 → 53:12

come from and why the language is so important.

53:12 → 53:17

So when I think of this app, I could see my child, my daughter,

53:17 → 53:20

and my niece on this app every day and coming to me and

53:20 → 53:23

saying, hey, mom, like, look at this, you were a part of that.

53:23 → 53:25

And I'll be like, yes, I was.

53:25 → 53:26

And

53:29 → 53:33

if they could advertise this to their peer

53:33 → 53:37

groups, especially to the Gwich'in kids

53:37 → 53:40

that this exists and we could learn Gwich'in together,

53:40 → 53:42

like how amazing would that be?

53:42 → 53:42

You know?

53:42 → 53:48

But I'm also in the hopes that this will go into into the schools,

53:49 → 53:52

that it would go into our mentors and apprentices who are

53:52 → 53:54

currently using the language,

53:54 → 53:56

and just to anyone in general.

53:56 → 54:00

Like, I plan on showing this to the elders that were a part of it

54:00 → 54:04

and showing what they contributed towards and how

54:04 → 54:07

they make how they're going to make a difference in people's

54:07 → 54:11

lives just by, you know, doing this,

54:11 → 54:15

just by going through the app and trying to learn as much as they can.

54:16 → 54:19

So I think the beauty of this project is that it actually

54:19 → 54:21

makes a difference.

54:21 → 54:24

I would say it's to some extent,

54:24 → 54:26

it's a library of the language,

54:26 → 54:28

severely endangered language.

54:28 → 54:31

So that's really unique about it.

54:31 → 54:35

And when Selina was describing the feedback she's getting,

54:35 → 54:40

yeah, I would like to add maybe a little bit to that point.

54:40 → 54:44

So when we were performing the user testing

54:45 → 54:50

part, it was extremely rewarding

54:50 → 54:53

to see that people were very positive

54:53 → 54:57

towards the app and they were excited to have it.

54:57 → 54:59

And we had comments like, oh,

54:59 → 55:04

I would like to use it in my everyday routine. Right.

55:04 → 55:08

So that was extremely rewarding.

55:10 → 55:11

Good.

55:11 → 55:13

It's really inspiring, you know,

55:13 → 55:15

to listen to the story of this application,

55:15 → 55:20

this project and I hope it gets the popularity it deserves.

55:20 → 55:24

Lisa, I think I'm out of questions for now.

55:24 → 55:30

But I can see that there is at least one for you.

55:30 → 55:31

That's from Marta.

55:31 → 55:36

And she's asking about the most challenging

55:36 → 55:40

part of language revitalization.

55:40 → 55:41

What is the toughest part of it?

55:41 → 55:45

And I think it's a good one for Selena.

55:46 → 55:49

Right now, I think

55:50 → 55:52

promoting the language, you know,

55:52 → 55:55

we need to be out there promoting the language.

55:55 → 55:59

We need to send the message of how important that,

55:59 → 56:01

you know, this is our livelihood.

56:01 → 56:03

This is where we come from.

56:03 → 56:05

This is our identity.

56:05 → 56:10

So for me to go on social media and, you know,

56:10 → 56:13

give reasons why the language is so important,

56:13 → 56:15

create posters with, you know,

56:15 → 56:18

elders on why they think the language is so important.

56:18 → 56:21

You know, those are messages that we wanna pass on,

56:21 → 56:26

not only to the younger generation, but to everybody.

56:26 → 56:28

We have a language nest in Inuvik,

56:28 → 56:31

and it's geared towards three and four year olds.

56:31 → 56:34

And right now, they're in it's it's daycare,

56:34 → 56:35

but it's a language nest,

56:35 → 56:39

and they're immersed in the language seven point five hours a day.

56:39 → 56:41

And, you know, listening you know,

56:41 → 56:44

I I've run into some of their parents

56:44 → 56:46

on the street because Inuvik is a small town,

56:46 → 56:48

less than thirty five hundred people.

56:48 → 56:51

And they're talking to me about the language nest and how their

56:51 → 56:53

grandchild is in there or how their child is in there,

56:53 → 56:57

and the the the children are coming home using the language.

56:57 → 56:58

You know?

56:58 → 57:00

And the other part of that is we're supposed to be having

57:00 → 57:02

parent language lessons as well.

57:02 → 57:05

But just to know that these kids are picking it up,

57:05 → 57:07

their little brains are their little brains are just sponges,

57:07 → 57:10

and they're just, you know, absorbing it.

57:11 → 57:16

That's promoting the language and getting out there,

57:16 → 57:19

using social media to get the language out there.

57:20 → 57:23

From a department, we have a lot of people

57:23 → 57:27

who are really interested in the language.

57:27 → 57:31

They have their own Facebook social media platforms.

57:31 → 57:34

They have Instagram where they're taking pictures,

57:34 → 57:38

and they're writing out the language and explaining what it is.

57:38 → 57:40

And now there's TikTok.

57:40 → 57:43

And so people are now using TikTok as, like, you know,

57:43 → 57:45

spreading the language, the awareness,

57:45 → 57:47

and getting out there and telling people, you know,

57:47 → 57:49

you need to learn your language.

57:49 → 57:51

There's nothing wrong with it. Don't be ashamed of it.

57:51 → 57:53

Like, let's do this together.

57:55 → 57:57

And so we do have a lot of Gwich'in participants,

57:57 → 57:59

and they have thousands of followers.

57:59 → 58:05

Like, I follow them just listen and to see how far they've come.

58:05 → 58:09

And also, when we talk about

58:09 → 58:11

language revitalization,

58:11 → 58:14

we need to continue to build resources.

58:14 → 58:17

We need to make resources available for all of our

58:17 → 58:20

Gwich'in participants,

58:20 → 58:24

but also working with some of the or working with the college

58:24 → 58:25

here in Inuvik, you know,

58:25 → 58:29

maybe to develop a Gwich'in class for people who can take that.

58:29 → 58:32

Because, you know, if I had a class that, you know,

58:32 → 58:35

that was in person and it was three times a week,

58:35 → 58:39

I would make the time to go there and be with other people

58:39 → 58:42

and learn off of other people as well.

58:42 → 58:44

I think that would be so exciting.

58:44 → 58:48

And if that class could have a graduation end date, you know,

58:48 → 58:50

and you could be recognized for that,

58:50 → 58:52

that would be amazing.

58:52 → 58:54

And that's like something that I'm definitely gonna be working

58:54 → 58:56

on in the very near future.

58:57 → 59:02

I can see that there's one more question to you,

59:02 → 59:03

Selena.

59:03 → 59:06

Before we before we go, maybe I would like to add one sentence.

59:06 → 59:07

Right.

59:07 → 59:08

So

59:09 → 59:10

I think

59:11 → 59:15

from my perspective and observing the work of Selena

59:15 → 59:19

and the Quechin Tribal, probably one of the challenges

59:19 → 59:22

is bridging the gap between generations.

59:23 → 59:25

Because, right,

59:25 → 59:29

you have kids at schools who are exposed to

59:29 → 59:35

Gwich'in right now, and the awareness of the language is more visible.

59:35 → 59:37

And you have the elders, right,

59:37 → 59:41

who who speak speak fluently the language.

59:41 → 59:41

Right.

59:41 → 59:45

And in between those generations are

59:47 → 59:50

probably the silent generations who can understand the

59:50 → 59:55

language possibly, but they have trouble speaking it.

59:55 → 59:55

Right.

59:55 → 60:00

So so I would imagine that that bridging the

60:00 → 60:03

gap between those two generations is

60:03 → 60:06

it must be a huge challenge.

60:06 → 60:08

It it you know, it is.

60:08 → 60:12

And one of the things I'll add to that, like I said before, you know,

60:12 → 60:14

speaking with individuals who understand the language but

60:14 → 60:16

don't speak it, you know,

60:16 → 60:20

a lot of it comes back to how they were made to feel when

60:20 → 60:22

they were speaking the language.

60:22 → 60:28

And, you know, it's I think there's there there's we definitely need a

60:28 → 60:32

lot of counseling in that part and for especially for language

60:32 → 60:35

learners because the feeling of,

60:35 → 60:40

you know, being ashamed or being scared

60:40 → 60:43

because you think someone is gonna reprimand you for that.

60:44 → 60:46

That's what we're dealing with right now.

60:46 → 60:51

And I listened to the elders and talking to them about

60:51 → 60:54

it, and they understand what's happening.

60:54 → 60:56

So that's definitely something

60:56 → 61:00

that we have to look at and how could we help them,

61:00 → 61:02

how could we support them.

61:02 → 61:03

Yeah.

61:04 → 61:09

Actually, this next question relates a bit to what you've just said, Selena,

61:09 → 61:12

because it's about the significance of

61:12 → 61:16

language preservation from the First Nations perspective.

61:16 → 61:20

Because I know that language revitalisation is one of your

61:20 → 61:22

main goals at Addiction Tribal Council.

61:22 → 61:28

Could you know, tell us briefly a bit more about, you know, this importance,

61:28 → 61:31

these goals from the First Nations perspective?

61:31 → 61:32

Sure.

61:32 → 61:34

So

61:34 → 61:36

when we talk about, you know,

61:36 → 61:39

an endangered language and like

61:39 → 61:43

how do we preserve it from the Gwich'in Tribal Council's

61:43 → 61:45

mandate, and I'm just gonna read this to you.

61:45 → 61:48

The Gwich'in Tribal Council's language revitalization

61:48 → 61:51

department was created to work with individuals and

61:51 → 61:54

organizations within the four communities, a Clavic,

61:54 → 61:57

Fort McPherson, Sige Chikan, Inuvik,

61:57 → 62:01

to make language learning accessible through projects and programs.

62:01 → 62:05

The department is developing archival materials for the use

62:05 → 62:08

by the communities and continuously creating new

62:08 → 62:10

resources for language instructors to use when

62:10 → 62:12

teaching the language.

62:13 → 62:15

Our vision statement is the Gwich'in are a culturally

62:15 → 62:18

vibrant and independent nation that is environmentally

62:18 → 62:21

responsible and socially, economically, and politically

62:21 → 62:23

self reliant.

62:24 → 62:28

Our mission statement is the Gwich'in protect and advance

62:28 → 62:31

their interests through the hard work,

62:31 → 62:32

collaborative approaches,

62:32 → 62:35

and good governance in order to improve the lives and preserve

62:35 → 62:38

the culture of the Gwich'in.

62:38 → 62:41

And when

62:41 → 62:44

we look at the key responsibilities of this

62:44 → 62:48

department, one of them is

62:48 → 62:52

collecting, recording, cataloging, protecting,

62:52 → 62:55

digitizing and sharing Gwich'in resources.

62:55 → 62:57

So when we think about that,

62:57 → 63:01

our department is looking at language teaching resources,

63:01 → 63:02

how do we create them?

63:02 → 63:04

Who is our partners?

63:05 → 63:08

Printing media, audio resources is a big one,

63:08 → 63:11

like I said before, computer based tools,

63:11 → 63:15

reference materials, including dictionaries, grammar tools and

63:15 → 63:16

transcription.

63:16 → 63:20

And even when I talk about the dictionaries, the six editions,

63:20 → 63:23

one of our goals is to combine all of them into one

63:23 → 63:25

document, so it's just there.

63:25 → 63:28

And then having the audio to go along with it.

63:28 → 63:32

So it's available not just to the people within the Gwich'in

63:32 → 63:34

settlement area, but it's there for everybody,

63:34 → 63:37

all the beneficiaries around the world.

63:37 → 63:40

The second role is increased opportunities for authentic

63:40 → 63:43

language learning in a safe and supportive environment.

63:43 → 63:47

Like I said, we have online classes and if people are interested in

63:47 → 63:49

joining, like, send me a message,

63:49 → 63:54

and I'll make sure to make get you in contact with the instructors.

63:54 → 63:58

And like I said, you know, if we could have Gwich'in classes,

63:58 → 64:01

if we could have online classes, you know,

64:01 → 64:03

three times a week, four times a week, you know,

64:03 → 64:05

that would be so ideal.

64:05 → 64:09

And, you know, having classmates to practice

64:09 → 64:13

on, you know, calling them up or going on Zoom or,

64:13 → 64:16

you know, meeting in person, going for a walk, you know,

64:16 → 64:18

you're practicing the language.

64:18 → 64:20

So that was one of our goals.

64:21 → 64:24

And number three was increase the importance of the Gwich'in

64:24 → 64:28

language, providing expertise, advice, and

64:28 → 64:31

recommendations to the chief operating officer on language

64:31 → 64:33

related matters and issues.

64:33 → 64:38

So, we're preparing reports based on what we see in the communities.

64:38 → 64:41

We're identifying and applying for sources of funding for

64:41 → 64:43

language programs.

64:43 → 64:44

And

64:44 → 64:46

we get funded from the government of the Northwest

64:46 → 64:49

Territories, I'm very grateful for.

64:49 → 64:53

And it's to use the money is to use for learning

64:53 → 64:56

resources, for learning the language,

64:56 → 64:58

for promoting it.

64:59 → 65:02

And then the last one is

65:03 → 65:06

increase the opportunity for sharing resources across

65:06 → 65:09

regions and organizations.

65:12 → 65:14

Creating children's books.

65:14 → 65:17

We have three children's books right

65:17 → 65:19

now that are in the language.

65:19 → 65:22

And that was given to some of the schools.

65:22 → 65:25

I still have to make deliveries to the other ones as well.

65:25 → 65:28

But that's another project that we're working on too,

65:28 → 65:31

is all of the elders that have passed away,

65:31 → 65:35

they have stories that they documented from when were

65:35 → 65:36

five years old.

65:36 → 65:40

And trying to bring those alive and trying to bring them back

65:40 → 65:43

to the community so the kids know where their elders came

65:43 → 65:47

from and what you know, the era that they came from, you know,

65:47 → 65:50

where they were totally living off the land.

65:50 → 65:53

So yeah. Sorry if was rambling on.

65:53 → 65:57

Yeah. Lots of meaningful meaningful job. Yeah.

65:57 → 65:58

Yep.

65:58 → 66:00

And and then and again, you know,

66:00 → 66:03

creating the printed and recorded information using

66:03 → 66:08

audio is so important, and I I just can't stress that enough.

66:08 → 66:09

Yeah.

66:10 → 66:13

And the one other thing is finding qualified instructors

66:13 → 66:15

to teach the language.

66:15 → 66:18

There's a lot of people out there that speak the language,

66:18 → 66:22

but to be a teacher, you need to go to school.

66:22 → 66:26

So we to look for courses that we can bring into the

66:26 → 66:29

community for people that are interested in teaching the

66:29 → 66:32

language so they could find an effective way of doing so.

66:32 → 66:35

And with that said, I have to talk about

66:36 → 66:40

this textbook that we that was created.

66:40 → 66:42

It's called the book,

66:44 → 66:48

and it's basically learning the language from a

66:48 → 66:49

beginner's point of view.

66:49 → 66:54

And it's two hundred and seventy eight pages back in front.

66:54 → 66:57

And there's one topic for everything,

66:57 → 67:00

but it's in a it's in, like, sentence format.

67:00 → 67:02

So you learn a you learn a word,

67:02 → 67:04

but then it's used in a a sentence,

67:04 → 67:06

and you have to practice that.

67:06 → 67:09

And at the end of that, you have a little exercise to do,

67:09 → 67:11

a little quiz before you could move on.

67:11 → 67:14

And so I'm just very I'm excited to see that because

67:14 → 67:16

it's being published right now.

67:16 → 67:17

I saw the outcome, the book,

67:17 → 67:22

and it was just so exciting to see it like as a real live document.

67:22 → 67:26

And I'm hoping to have it mailed to me by beginning of

67:26 → 67:27

May.

67:27 → 67:30

And so then I can distribute it out to the people that are

67:30 → 67:31

currently learning the language,

67:31 → 67:32

but also give it out to the schools,

67:32 → 67:35

the Aboriginal language instructors as well.

67:35 → 67:37

Sounds really exciting, very practical.

67:37 → 67:40

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the success of that.

67:40 → 67:42

Okay,

67:43 → 67:45

I think we're running out of time.

67:45 → 67:48

So to finish, I wanted to really thank you,

67:48 → 67:50

Kasia and Salina,

67:50 → 67:53

for accepting our invitation and taking part in this discussion.

67:53 → 67:57

I think it was very informative,

67:57 → 68:01

very educational and our audience learned a lot

68:01 → 68:04

about Gwich'in language revitalization and the ways in

68:04 → 68:06

which technology can support this.

68:06 → 68:09

Thank you very much for accepting this invitation.

68:09 → 68:11

Thank you so much for having me.

68:11 → 68:14

It was a really great hour and I really enjoyed talking about

68:14 → 68:16

language revitalization.

68:16 → 68:17

So thank you.

68:18 → 68:19

Thank you. Right.

68:19 → 68:21

It was

68:21 → 68:26

really interesting to talk about the project again,

68:26 → 68:31

as it's been a couple of months from my perspective since I

68:31 → 68:35

finished my part of the Gwygin journey.

68:35 → 68:37

So it was really nice to

68:38 → 68:41

refresh my memory about this project.

68:42 → 68:46

Yeah, it was very interesting to talk to you about it.

68:46 → 68:47

So just to finish off,

68:47 → 68:52

I wanted to remind our audience that this session was being recorded.

68:52 → 68:56

So there will be a recording for you if you want to rewatch

68:56 → 68:57

it later on.

68:57 → 69:01

And thank you for joining us and see you soon,

69:01 → 69:03

I hope. Goodbye.

69:03 → 69:04

Thank you. Bye.

69:04 → 69:05

Thank you.